Before its New York premiere, I sat down with the directors of Fire Fucking Fire, Julia Eringer and Rachel Paulson.

The short is about Ally, a people-pleasing lesbian who, after sleeping with her rockstar crush, thinks her dreams of love are coming true. However, there's one small problem: in the morning, the rockstar won't leave...

You can buy tickets for Fire Fucking Fire's Tribeca screenings here.

Look for a review of Fire Fucking Fire on June 7th.

The following interview has been edited for clarity and flow.

Introduction and Guest Welcome

Austin: Hello, friends on the internet.

Overview of Fire Fucking Fire

Austin: I am thrilled to be here today with Julia Eringer and Rachel Paulson, the directors behind the short film Fire Fucking Fire, set to have its New York premiere at Tribeca 2024 on Friday, June 7th, almost the June 9th there at 8:15 PM. For those who aren't aware of this film or just need a quick refresher, the short follows Ally who, after finally hooking up with her rock star crush, realizes that her dreams of love and popularity, while they're coming true, the monkey's paw kind of curls with the fact that her rock star crush isn't leaving. So, welcome Julia and Rachel, and thank you for joining me today to talk about your short Fire Fucking Fire.

Julia Eringer: Thanks.

Rachel Paulson: Yes, thank you for having us.

Austin: Yeah, no problem. I feel like shorts don't get the publicity that features do. I know Tribeca does music videos now, too. I think last year, they started doing music videos with, oh gosh, was it Black Keys, Wild Child, Lizzo, and stuff like that? But, I'm always happy to talk about shorts because, again, they don't really get the publicity features do.

Origins of the Film

Austin: But with that, I want to talk about Fire Fucking Fire. And first would be the obvious question. Where did the idea come from for the short?

Julia: Rachel and I were acting together in a movie called Good Kisser. During that shoot up in Seattle, Rachel was DMing with a famous rock star, who will remain nameless. We will not say who it is. And yes, so she was DMing the rock star and was like, "Come to my show!" and Rachel was like, "Julia, come with me!" and I'm like, "I am not going with you to this tryst." So yeah, we spitballed on set and were working nights and getting pretty delirious, and we came up with this scenario: "What would happen if she had gone on this meetup?" Rachel: And if it had gone, obviously, chaotically wrong. We're like, "I'm sure the results would have been a fucking nightmare," and we would have been in trouble on the shoot.

Austin: Oh, for sure. It would have been probably as much of a nightmare as it is in the short.

Rachel: Yeah, yeah.

Austin: Especially with, like, what was it she did early on? Mixes like vodka and what, coconut milk?

Rachel: Yeah, it's tequila and coconut water. I'm really not sure how delicious that actually is. So don't try that at home, please. Thank you.

Austin: Yeah, even if it's like the good tequila, don't try that.

Rachel: No, no.

Musical Influences and Inspirations

Austin: But I also want to talk about the musical influences because obviously, music plays a huge part in this short. So, were there any inspirations, specifically artists that you're listening to while writing the script or, on set, anything like that?

Julia: We definitely took inspiration from the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. I think that would be the main one that we were like, "This is the feel of the movie." Calico is obviously Beast Blanco's front woman. And so we ended up using an original song that has never been heard before and never been on any album for the party scene, which again, that was definitely like part of our soundtrack. We discovered this amazing band called Karen, a local New Mexico band based in Albuquerque. I live in Santa Fe, and their sound also is very much what we would imagine Fire Fucking Fire to sound like, which is Meg's band.

Austin: Yeah, I'll have to put that on my Spotify. Was the intro song original, too?

Julia: The intro song is also original and was written by a Sante Fe singer-songwriter called Buglet.

Austin: Nice.

Rachel: Once Julia found Calico, I think you guys had the same manager.

Yeah, and she said we decided to go with all the bands. I also want to say some things about what we did in the movie. You know, some products and stuff are very Gwen Stefani-esque as well. So I think No Doubt was a little bit of the vibe.  

Austin: Yeah, I can see that, like with the hair and everything. Yeah, I could see that.

Rachel: Yeah.

Austin: And that's a natural transition point to talking about Meg Taylor herself, but I know we talked a little bit about the inspirations behind her, so I'll skip that. Is there any other part of the character process I'm missing that I haven't touched on?

Julia: Well, on the face of it, it's about this relationship thing with a rock star. Underneath that, it's really about boundaries and being able to know your own worth so that you're not giving your power away to somebody else. I think so often in this life that we're so obsessed with fame and social media and industry, and how can I get there and get somewhere other than where I am. And in doing so, if that person is not responding in the way that you want them to be, with love or whatever, or being attuned to or interested in you, then that abandonment happens, which is what happens in this film. It's something that many people understand from childhood and then subconsciously recreate in their relationships.

Austin: Right.

Julia: Relationships, industry relationships. That was really the core and the heart of what this film is about.

Rachel: And also, it's such a ride from Ally having that moment and then stepping back into that power that she ends up regaining or taking back. When she tells everyone to get out of the house or whatnot. So that's also an interesting aspect of this because it starts here and then ends here, and it's this whole arc of her returning to take her power.

Austin: Yeah, no.

Julia: Yeah, but I also think that maybe this isn't the best way to take it. I think this is about what happens when you give your power away and suppress your own.

Austin: Yeah, for sure. Obviously, I won't name names, but I had a similar situation where I was in a relationship and was so scared of having a fight. And I was so avoidant that I would be like, let's just make good on everything. And then that's what, you know, you talk about an explosion and then like, okay, well, now the fight is 10 times bigger than anything it would have been a month or two months prior.

Julia: Yeah, exactly. And this is a compressed version of that because it's all happening over a few hours.

Challenges During Filming

Austin: It's a boring question, but the end of the short ends in this full party scene. What were some of the biggest challenges filming in a singular location like a house that is probably 500 square feet?

Julia: I wouldn't be able to estimate the size of the location, but I'm really bad with spatial stuff. But yeah, the biggest challenge was shooting in the bathroom, to be honest, because there really was not a lot of space in there. The rest of the house is an open plan, making it easy to feel full. That was a good thing about it. We didn't have to have so many extras. We had 20, including the band. And that it felt like a raging house party. So yeah, the house was a decent size for what we needed. The bathroom, though, don't you think, Rachel? That was the hardest because it was a small bathroom, so it was cramped in there, and we couldn't get all the angles we wanted. But we had to use the mirror to get the reflections.

Rachel: Yeah.

Julia: But yeah, I think that apart from that. The location lent itself pretty nicely to the feeling of claustrophobia and anxiety that Ali is going through because her house is being invaded, Julia. And, and, a privacy nightmare.

Technical Aspects and Cinematography

Austin: That makes me think of something. Basically, a lot of people are shifting to smaller and smaller rigs for shoots like that. I don't wanna get too specific and technical, but did you have to make a smaller rig just for that bathroom, or was it just as simple as what you were talking about with the mirror shot?

Rachel: Didn't she have a Steadicam?

Julia: Yeah, we, yeah.

Rachel: Yeah, and I think she, our DP Tammy, because she was wearing a steady cam, it was slightly easier. I think if she because she had the, you know, it was like a matter of getting her body in there, and if her body was in there, you know, we could shoot, but I think the bathroom was so small. There was only one bathroom, which we ultimately had to do, as Julia was saying. We had to use the mirror because we wanted that angle but couldn't position it or anywherewithout getting something else we didn't want. So we had to end up using them, which, to be honest, is one of my favorite shots, but it was different from what we were going to do. We had to come up with that kind of on-the-fly. So, yeah.

Austin: I was just wondering because I know the cameras are getting smaller. And I know even recently, I've been hearing...It's not wide, but I've heard many people trialing out iPhone stuff for shooting in confined spaces like that in the production landscape. So, that's why I wanted to ask.

Julia: No, we haven't. We used an Alexa mini, so yeah, it's pretty nimble.

Austin: Oh, nice. That's a nice leaping off point into my next question: How did you approach, you know, the visual styles and things like that. I don't know if that would be a question for the cinematographer or...

Julia: No, we were pretty specific about what we wanted. In terms of the feel, we talked about it being like Insecure and Euphoria.

Austin: I need to see both of those.

Julia: Yeah, you do. They're great. So, the beginning is very soft lighting. We have that wider lens through which we can be close and personal with Meg and Ally. It's that fantasy, that sort of light streaming in from outside, soft and glowy, which quickly descends into something much more saturated and realistic as these red flags get redder and redder. We increased the saturation and also messed with how we were shooting, making it messy and less still. And yeah, changing the lenses so we get that claustrophobic, anxious feel by the time we're in the party.

Rachel: Yeah. And I think the part which I believe really switches that over to the party is also when the Snorricam comes in, I was, like, wearing a Snorricam on my body, like, walking through the party, and that part where I'm walking through, like, looking at all of the, the people at the party. I think that was that really heightened that moment, I think, for me as well when I was re-watching it back, and, like yeah, so I think that the, the anxiety by the party is extremely heightened, and I think that that really shows in the way that it was shot.

Austin: Yeah. It's funny because that's exactly what I was going to bring up. Yeah. I think I put it in my notes as Mean Girls camera shot because I was like, I don't know what camera this is. The last movie I saw was Mean Girls, the musical. Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah.

Julia: I haven't seen that one. That's on my list.

Austin: You're better off.

Rachel: You're not missing much.

Julia: I think they use it in Booksmart, too. And they definitely use it in Requiem for a Dream.

Austin: Basically, the Mean Girls musical movie is like TikTok got ahold of Mean Girls and said, "Here's Mean Girls, but through the lens of TikTok." Reneé Rapp has me seated, but everything else? No. But yeah, did you say Snorricam or something like that?

Julia: Snorricam, yeah.

Austin: Okay.

Rachel: It's a Snorricam. It's like this rig you wear, almost like a front-laying backpack. Then, this big pole goes out from your stomach and you put it on to face the person wearing it. And then it's designed to get that person's POV from their face instead of from the other side.

Austin: I'll make sure to add that to my dictionary of things: Snorricam. Because I don't know about you, but I don't know what kind of camera that is. And it's kind of hard to do research because you're like, "Oh, well, it kind of looks like this, but I don't know exactly what the setup is. But yeah, thank you for that new term.

Genre Shifting and Directing

Austin: So, my question is, how did you balance both of those? The drama and dark comedy aspects of it, you know, kind of a boring question, but you know.

Julia: No, it's not boring. I think, yeah, because this is kind of an outlandish thing. I think we could have gone broad with it. But for me, that, that. The desire was always for me comedy. I always find it funnier when it's grounded and real and like these people exist in the universe. Meg is out there, like I know, because I've met people like that. I'm really rooting her in something super real that she could play. We talked a lot with Calico about that and experimented with different directorial tools to really get that performance. And specifically for Meg. What I found really important was that she had this. The voices in her head were really loud, and that's why she had to always be going and finding something out because it would be too much if she was alone in a quiet moment. They would take over. And you really see that moment after the, like, I don't want to say too much, but there's a, there's one scene where you really see that where she's settled into being alone and, and then, you can see the sort of the demons taking over in her mind. And, yeah, that element is leaning more towards dark comedy and drama, and keeping that super, super grounded and real was really important to me. And then also keeping the actors, everybody had that, right? Everybody had, and we did this in rehearsal, like a very strong action, a very strong inner obstacle, and a very strong outer obstacle.

The trifecta of those would play against each other to create these distinct and grounded characters. And then, when we were on set, it was just a matter of ensuring everybody stayed in that lane because it's very seductive when someone plays something so well. So, you know, Ally, Rachel was so effectively playing that, like, oh my God, this is so awful. What's going on at this party that we had to be like to Jess Capri? Who's playing? Jess? Like, no, this is the best day of your life. And to me, the contrast creates that comedy because they both react completely differently to the same scenario.

Rachel: Yeah, it's almost when children have different, like when two brothers can live in the same household but have different scenarios about their growing up. Right. It's like, you know, these three people had different experiences at this party. And that was such an interesting thing. And I remember that on set, Julia would just like to be behind the monitor and scream the words we would've practiced in rehearsal. Like she would be like, get her to love you. And then I'd be like, And I would like, no, exactly what she meant just because we rehearsed it so much before. Still, we all had these like, for lack of a better word, trigger words that we would hit on based on the character and the rehearsal we had done. I think it was so brilliant that Julia did that because it was solely her for me, and for me as an actor, it was such an easy way to get back into that kind of moment and that feeling that I needed to have. And I think everybody who was an actor in this film felt that way.

Austin: Let's talk a bit about that kind of dual role. What is it like directing yourself? I'm guessing you didn't direct yourself?

Rachel: I didn't really, no. I didn't direct myself. We kind of did this thing where I was there through pre-production. I was there through a lot of post-production, and then Julia was really kind of the sole director on set because I felt like we both, I think, felt that for me to do that and really play that role in the way that I think both of us wanted me to, I kind of needed to step away.

Personally, I think it wouldn't have gone as well if there had been two people back there. I had worked with Julia before, and we wrote this together, so I definitely trusted her in that space. I don't think this movie would be what it is if it hadn't gone that way.

So, on set, I didn't do much directing. I mean, every now and then, Julia would be like, "What do you think?" She was obviously collaborating with me on that. But as far as performances go, she was definitely the acting director on set.

Austin: Yeah, awesome.

Julia: I think because of how quickly we had to shoot, too. It's a 16 and a half minute short, and we shot it in two days. So, we had to move really fast. There wasn't a lot of room to watch playback. There was one cut scene I think that I had Rachel watch the playback of, but that was the only time. So, it would have been great to have an extra day. And I think then we could have done that a bit more.

Rachel: Yeah, I think I was also in almost every scene. I remember the band playing scene when they were shooting that. I was watching that and was so excited because I hadn't seen anything.

That was really the only one I could watch because I was in basically every other scene. So, we had to move really quickly.

Audience Takeaways and Tribeca Premiere

Austin: So, my last question is, what do you hope audiences take away from watching this at Tribeca, and how does it feel getting into Tribeca 2024?

Rachel: Honestly, this is cheesy and stupid, but I want people to laugh. I want people to watch it and say, wow, that's funny. And every time I send it to someone to watch, that person is in my circle, my manager, and they're like, "Wow. I laughed so many times." That makes me feel so great.

Then, when everyone keeps saying how great the performances are. So that should be a testament to you, Julia, because every person I send this to is like, "The performances in this are so good."

So, I think those are two things I would love people to take from it. Tribeca is...I don't even know. It still feels surreal that it's even happening.

Julia: We're thrilled to be at Tribeca. We couldn't imagine a better place or home for our short film.

What we would like audiences to take away is that I really wanted this to be a ride—a really fun ride where you up the stakes. Every beat ups the stakes, and it gets more and more outlandish and more fun. So, I want audiences to have a lot of fun watching it.

And then, later on, when they're thinking about it, they can say, "Well, gosh, I do that. And maybe I don't want to do that. And what's a way that I can be truer to myself and be clearer with my boundaries so that I don't end up in an explosive situation.

Austin: It reminded me a lot of of my favorite films, Scott Pilgrim vs. the World. Which for anyone who knows me is only a good thing.

Julia: Oh, great. What a compliment. Thank you.

Austin: But with that said, I wanted to thank you both for sharing your time and insights with me about Fire Fucking Fire, which, thankfully, this isn't a video interview because I'll get demonetized so fast.

Rachel: So fast.

Austin: Like, what is it? First seven seconds? Yeah. For those in New York for Tribeca 2024, it premieres there Friday, June 7th at 8:15 PM at the AMC 19th Street with screenings on the 12th at the Village East Angelika and June 15th and 16th at, again, AMC 19th Street.

I'll have a review up on June 7th, along with a bunch of other reviews, coverage, and all the things you expect from a festival. In fact, I'm working on a "hidden gems" article now. That's going to be out on June 1st. So, again, thank you for your time.

Julia: Thank you so much.

Rachel: Thank you so much.

Austin: No problem. I hope you have a great Tribeca!

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