I sat down with Robert Kenner and Melissa Robledo, the co-directors of Food Inc. 2, to discuss the film's investigation into the state of our food system today. They delve into the impact of the pandemic on food workers, the dangers of ultra-processed foods, and the alarming rise of food industry consolidation. Learn what surprised the directors the most and discover how to take action for a better food future.

Food Inc. 2 is out in limited theaters and on VOD this Friday!

If you'd rather listen or watch the interview, you can do so below.

Look for a review of Food Inc 2 this week!

The following transcript has been edited for clarity.

Austin: Hello. My name is Austin Belzer. Welcome back to Austin B Media today. I'm here with Robert Kenner and Melissa Robledo, and apologies If I mispronounced any of that, the co-directors of Food Inc. 2. I'm so excited to just to discuss this documentary.

I saw it last night. Let's get started. Welcome. Good to be here. Yeah. Yeah, it's good. It's a. Interesting thing, I don't know if people know this, but Food Inc. was my, I think, my first documentary I watched, other than the, I think, Ben Stein documentaries. So this is an interesting moment for me.

Yeah, let's talk about this.

Why did you feel compelled to make a sequel to Food Inc., I believe 16 or 17 years later?

The Motivation Behind Creating Food Inc. 2

Robert Kenner: We didn't really feel compelled to make a film. We For the longest time, thought we would never want to enter this space again as filmmakers, the greatest thing documentary filmmakers is that you like to enter a subject when you know nothing about it, and you can learn like your audience learns.

So the idea of a sequel always felt it was not that exciting an idea, even though we were approached to do one for a number of years, we had nothing necessarily new to say. I think what happened is in the first film, we really thought we could help change the food system that eaters were really interested in knowing where their food came from.

Wanted to shop ethically, and we thought you could change the food system one bite at a time. We highlighted how Walmart was doing certain things and how you could influence corporations into doing the right thing. And we thought we were done with food.

Exploring the Impact of the Pandemic on the Food Industry

Robert Kenner: Made films about numbers of different subjects since then but when the pandemic hit, it exposed the brutality of this consolidated food system in a way that it just we felt compelled to re enter it.

And it wasn't because of the pandemic that the brutality and the consolidation existed before the pandemic and exists today. But when you saw workers being called essential and being put into plants without any protection and many of them dying and the managers betting on how many we're going to die next week or farm workers being told there was no contact tracing.

And that the bottom line was these companies wanted to make money and they didn't care at all about their workers. And we felt that the audience is a little more interested in that subject today. And we also thought We could talk about foods that these companies are making that are very profitable, these ultra-processed foods, but yet they're not good for the farmers who make it, and they're not good for the people who eat it.

And we thought this was a reason to re-enter this arena.

Austin: Yeah, and I feel like you go really in-depth into that. While you're talking, I'm thinking of the Waterloo, Iowa chapter of this documentary, which I believe if my notes are right, said 13,000 in the first week, and it exponentially went up specific tomato growers, and I can't pronounce the city, but Immokalee and then I believe impossible foods is the other one with the ultra-processed foods.

Diving Deep into the Dangers of Ultra-Processed Foods

Austin: And I want, let's use that as a transition point to talk about the ultra processed foods. I want, I want to talk about the NIH study Kevin Hall conducted. I know I'm getting into a little bit into the weeds here, for people don't know what necessarily I'm talking about.

He did a study where he took the ultra-processed diet and the minimally processed diet, where you can eat as much or as little as you want. Tried to match it up as simply as possible, as comparative as possible. And I guess, were you surprised by these the results of this study?

Did you know about the study going into it? Love to hear your thoughts.

Melissa: We thought those results were absolutely shocking. There have been there's been a lot of literature, a lot of studies done correlational studies about the impacts of ultra processed foods on our health.

It's, like a diet high in ultra processed foods is linked to some 32 diseases. And there just continue to be studies showing the deleterious effects of consuming too many, too much ultra-processed food. But this is the only study to directly compare those two diets in a clinical setting. And what they found was that It's the same people: one week, they're on one diet, the next week, they're on the other, and they're compared to another group that's doing the opposite.

And across the board, the participants, when they were on the ultra-processed diet, ate an average of 500 calories more per day. And this is just voluntary eating the same people the week later, and it's shot. They don't, they, it's just a shocking number. And so we thought it was fascinating and really important work to show he, they, he has theories about why that is and so there will be more research forthcoming.

But it's It's it. We found it shocking.

The Shocking Findings of the NIH Study on Diet

Robert Kenner: What's so interesting is Kevin Hall didn't believe that would be the case when he started the study. So it's always interesting when a scientist goes to prove something and finds out it's just the opposite. And that's when you know you're dealing with a real scientist.

And as Marion Nestle said that she's been around and she's never heard of it. 500 calories more per day in any study. She said maybe 25, maybe 50. But the idea that they're eating 500 more calories per day is unheard of. And that was really the sort of understanding that ultra-processed food is probably the biggest new thing that's happened since the first film. We talked about sugar, salt, and fat in the first film, and we talked about diabetes, but there's the new study that is ultra-processing itself.

It is really bad for one's health, and that's going to be very hard for food companies because They're not going to be able to say a little less ultra-processed. You can say less sugar, but you can't say less ultra-processed.

Austin: Yeah, I think I saw something recently. I don't even know if this is true that chick fil a started putting up signs of we're limiting I forget the language, but they're saying they're limiting You human safe they're talking something about human safe additives.

They changed the verbiage of their additives, which was, I found quite interesting.

Melissa: We'll have to look into that. I hadn't seen that.

Austin: Yeah, I'll have to. There's a lot of stuff happening this week. I read another article today about something.

Addressing the Issue of Food Industry Consolidation

Austin: Some additives in the ocean, like WESA, yeah. Anyway, not to get too in the weeds there, but let's go a little bit. Yeah, let's talk a little bit more about the data because I'm a big data nerd. When you show me numbers, I'm going to obsess over them. I wrote all the relevant data down in my review notes; it's just what I do. My question is, what stood out for you in the data?

For me, I know you talked about the four pillars. You talk about the jump of the meat processing share being from 25 percent now to 85%. And just those four columns you talk about were the biggest ones.

Robert Kenner: But actually, I think you're talking about consolidation there.

Austin: Yes. I'm talking about the consolidation packing companies.

Yeah. Cargill. And the three others I can't remember right now.

Robert Kenner: Smithfield

The Challenge of Presenting Data in an Engaging Way

Austin: BPI. Yeah. That sounds about right. And the study PepsiCo study was another one on the sweetness and calorie correlation, which is another case of you talking about scientists trying to prove one thing and finding out the other thing.

But my my question is, how do you convey that data and, in a meaningful way while also keeping it, not trying to create a disconnect, trying to make it visually engaging and accessible to an audience that maybe doesn't know exactly what those numbers mean?

Robert Kenner: We're trying to make a film that is both informative and entertaining.

So we're in the, in a weird way you can't just provide information to people. They, it's hard to swallow if, using a food metaphor that people want to sit down on a couch and watch something that keeps them interested. And we try to add as much humor. We try to add as much emotion as possible and, at the same time, satisfy their need to know what's good to be eating, what's good for you, and what's good for the planet.

So I think we go into it thinking how can we, you know, make our audience feel satisfied, and I don't know if entertained is the right word, but they do not feel like they're being fed medicine.

Austin: I might have to steal that quote. But yeah I just think it's interesting because you have to use a lot of data.

If you don't use that, I think there's that risk of, oh this is not pliable to me because I'm not seeing the numbers or something like that. Or whatever excuse somebody would use,

Melissa: I'd say I'll just interject to say that in the case of the four meatpacking companies, what we're trying to show is that the consolidated power has just gotten more intensified.

And that's the that's what we're showing is the accumulation of that, that we're seeing that there's just a smaller and smaller handful of companies controlling All aspects along our food chain, and that's not good for workers. It's not good for the environment. It's not good for eaters. And that's ultimately we're using the data to show that this is based in fact, and we

Robert Kenner: And that's ultimately we're using the data to show that this is based in fact, and we were shocked.

We were shocked by the level of consolidation, and it really a limpid eliminates competition. We live in a free society, and yet we've gotten to the point where they're just a few companies controlling every aspect. And, here we have two companies controlling baby formula. And one of them goes down and it becomes a very brittle system where babies no longer can get formula.

And we need a more diversified, healthier food system for all of us to survive.

Austin: Yeah, I remember when we were watching it last night, me and my mom when that section hit, we were both like, oh yeah, we forgot about that. And it happened, what, four years ago? It's still

Robert Kenner: It's still happening. It's going on right now.

It's amazing, but you do forget, that's, I think one of the things we do as filmmakers is collect all these different pieces that people might know about, but you arrange them in a pattern and try to have people see that pattern.

Austin: Yeah, and I guess, going on that pattern I keyed in on, you use chapter chapters in this documentary.

So there's a rise of the quote-unquote, what I like to call the docu-series. Was there ever, I think an attempt to maybe try and flesh the narrative of this out into a larger series like that?

Robert Kenner: We just finished a series for Netflix before and thought we wanted to keep it a little more concise and avoid the filmic bloat that sometimes exists.

Austin: You said, no, we're good now. I don't know. I don't like the editing. I'm sure the editing process was bad.

The Investigation Process and Surprising Discoveries

Austin: But, yeah, and getting back to what we were talking about, talking about consolidation in your investigation. I, how, I guess how long was this investigation?

Because you, earlier you show in the Kansas City section, you show. Footage from as far back as 2017.

Melissa: We weren't filming at that time. We used earlier footage to tell a longer story.

Austin: Got it. Got it.

Robert Kenner: We started in 2020, right? We did. That's shocking. That's a long It was a long process. I'd imagine,

Austin: The food industry is, yeah, a lot changes even in a week, so I can imagine that, yeah.

But I guess my question is in that process, regarding consolidation, did you find any, I know we already talked about surprising things about consolidation surprising things did you find that we haven't talked about yet?

Robert Kenner: I was fascinated by Marion Nestle talking about how, basically, we're supposed to be eating 2000 calories today, a day rather, and we're producing 4000 calories.

So, these companies have a hard time figuring out how to get us to eat more food. So I found that a really fascinating aspect of how. Ultimately, they're creating food that's paying farmers far less for their product and charging ultra processing this food and then charging the consumers more. And that process is really interesting.

And I think it's shown how we've gotten to such a sort of vulnerable place with healthcare and all the disease that's going on. And I was surprised at how much almost two-thirds of the American diet is ultra-processed. And I found that really shocking when we made Food, Inc. One. I was certainly aware that lower-income people had a hard time affording healthy vegetables and things like that, but I think it's also people who can afford stuff that are now eating ultra-processed food and becoming sick from it.

So, that was one of the things that I found most interesting.

Austin: Yeah. I mean, the first Food Inc., I think, caused our paleo diet as a family. Or that's where we ultimately ended up, and even now, we think there's a real—I don't know what the technical term would be—is it's more convenient for ultra-processed foods.

You talk about it a little bit in the beginning, I believe when you talk about the gap between food being one and two, where you're talking about the organic foods becoming corporatized. It's become that thing where it's becoming even more prohibitive, prohibitively expensive to avoid those additives, right?

And to the point where it's goodness, it's almost becoming cyclical of, oh, we want to eat these health foods, and then you eat the health foods, and then they're the same as the health foods, the ultra-processed foods you were trying to avoid.

Robert Kenner: Which causes you to even more ultra-processed foods. At least the problem, Austin, is that we are subsidizing the unhealthy food and we are not subsidizing the healthy food. So it's one this unhealthy food we're paying for in our tax dollars through the farm bill. And yet we're then also paying for it through health care because it's making us sick. And I think that one of the things that we would like to see changed is to reprioritize so that we can start to incentivize healthier food.

Austin: Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Robert Kenner: Okay.

Austin: Can't wait for people to watch this on April 12th.

Robert Kenner: Great. Thanks. April 9th.

Austin: April 9th limited April 12th VOD.